I'm sceptical about pre ordering + few questions

If you've watched the official videos and your audio was turned on, then you've probably already heard, most of the answers of your list...

Look, in this video, Tom says nearly everything new in TransportFever.

Or Read the FAQ , there were a few questions answered.

@TheUros If you are sceptical about pre-orderig, then DON'T DO IT, wait a couple of days and watch some "let's play" or review videos on youtube first. Furthermore if you don't enjoy Train Fever as it is now then don't pre-order as well. Although I really think Transport Fever has more features than Train Fever and is certainly the better game, you can't be sure that all the stuff annoying you now, will be changed in a successor game. Yes, the 10% off on pre-orderis will be gone, but you will still have the 15% loyalty discount. It's better to have a loss of $3 than $30 right? Also, if you have the patience to wait for the Christmas sale, you might get even a better deal. Don't take this as an offense, but I can't take people serious who pre-order stuff based on some pictures/videos and then "whine" about their disappointment in forums. Most of them Blame the developers for tricking them into buying the product, although they made the bad decision themselves. So please don't become one of them.

Edit: Btw, welcome to the forum

Zitat von TheUros

1. Will TF use 20 min rule or something else ? This features is nice for passengers but it sucks for cargo.

2. Can we expect some more advanced train signals features?
3. Will there be time tables ?
4. Will there be weather conditions and day night cycles ?
5. What map dimensions can we expect? (Planes needs bigger maps to be viable).
6. Hardware specs. will be the same as in Tran Fever?
7. What great feature Transport Fever has that are unique regarding to Train Fever? (except ships and planes)
8. Will steam workshop be supported?

Alles anzeigen

1. The devs haven't stated directly weather the 20 minute rule is still enforced or not, or if we will still see passengers and cargo disappear mid journey. They have hinted several times towards a more advanced system were passengers and cargo choose between faster or cheaper transport methods, but haven't said directly if they reset when a time limit is reached.
2. "Several tools allow to influence the departure, path and arrival of vehicles without the need for extensive micromanagement." No further details have been given, as far as I can find...
3. See 2
4. Not in initial release. They are considering adding both weather and day/night cycles later.
5. Bigger than Train Fever. The maximum limits have not been stated but it will apparently be possible to exceed their recommended size limit.
6. Min specs: Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 3.0 GHz. Memory: 4 GB RAM. Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 or better, ATI Radeon HD 5670 or better, 1 GB VRAM. A bit more demanding than Train Fever.
7. ... Ships and planes. Other than that, it's pretty much what Train Fever should have been... Train Fever 2.0 if you like.
8. Yes it will!! (wohoo!!)

PreOrder is the most stupid thing ever a possible customer can do. Name me one game in the long history of computer games that has no serious bugs on release day one. And how many games never lived up to their expectations.
Considering the above and your own bad experiences, it's even more surprising that you are obviously not willing to learn. What sense does it make for you to repeat your own bad decision ?
What in hell drives customers to preorder - I never understood this. With every preorder you buy a pig in a poke. I am quite sure this game will be not the only game you own, so meanwhile play them. If you have the game a few days sooner or later, this is not the end of the world and there is no reason to spend money for a pig in a poke.

You know what I don' t get? What makes people like you feeling entitled to judge other peoples decision what they do with their money.
Is this a " generation facebook" thing that you have to comment on things that have absolutely no impact on yourself? #keepyouropiniontoyourself

Of course there are negative aspects to preordering. Cynical people would say there are negative aspects to anything...but that's a different story.
I preordered Train Fever back in the day and my reaction at first was rather mixed. That's kind of the nature of the beast to continue your animal analogies.
I suppose it's all in what you're used to and how high you set your standards.

I agree that it is stupid to preorder a game and expect it to be perfect on launch, however, I do not agree with you saying that preordering in general is the most stupid thing ever.
In fact, for Transport Fever, I assume many Train Fever enthusiasts are more than happy to preorder, simply to get the preorder discount - which in my book is a big "pro" on the pros and cons list for preordering.

Perhaps that is the reason why I have already preordered it. And no, I do not expect a perfectly polished game at launch. The same way I don't expect all TF mods to be available to TPF within the first 24h after launch.
I simply want to dive in as soon as possible and giggle like a little schoolgirl everytime they update something, add a function, etc.
But maybe that's just me.

EDIT: Now, now, guys and gals, everyone is entitled to their opinion, what matters is how you present it. So let's all be nice and try and not let things get out of hand here, please!

Is he that wrong? Everyone complains about beta or even alpha releases for full money. EY and Ubisoft are often under massive critics coz of decisions and bugs. But... they earn millions. Why? Its because noone wants to wait. Hypetrain I'm commin! Ppl just dont learn. The consumer has all the might in his hands. He complains? Then he should think about how to use his power! And he wont use his power when he buys every shit thats released. So Blowfly is not that wrong when he says preordering is bullshit.

Ofc its your decision what you do. But dont support shit and complain about its shit I for myselfe decided to preorder TpF. I just want to support this little but sympathic devloper team because i really loved their first title. Even if TpF will fail hard I wont be crumpy about that too much. But on the other hand: I have been a fan of Battlefield or GTA since the first hour - I stopped beeing a customer at BF4 and GTA4. I dont like the way they chose and I use my only power I have - my money. They want it? They shall give me what I want. So all the others that preorder seem to want exactly what they get

Zitat von Blowfly

What in hell drives customers to preorder

In this case, 25% off.

I do not expect it to be perfect on release. I will only be complaining if the devs abandon the game without completing the fixes and DLCs they've been promising, like they did with Train Fever. However, since I loved Train Fever, spent so much time playing it and livestreaming it, and since I like what I'm seeing with Transport Fever, I'm willing to give them a second chance.

But no more than that.

So, you want support them with your preorder - doesn't make sense because you take a preorder discount of at least 3 Euro (if you didn't own TF before). If you really want support them you should pay the full price at release day one The other 15% (if you were a TF owner before)) also get the regular customer when purchasing the game at release day one or later. And regarding the discount - after the discount is before the next discount. Discounts come and go, never it will be the first and never will be the last.

And to all preorders fans here:

Do you go to your Supermarket and buy your potatoes as preorder ? Wouldn't make sense, although you can be quite sure that the quality of the potatoes will be the same as always.
Now compare this with a game - nothing is sure and the last is the quality. However, almost 100% sure is that the game has big bugs at release day one, this is what shows the experience from the past with all kind of games. And this leads only to waisted time and frustration.
So what the hell makes people to preorder an unfinished, full of bugs, product ? There is no reasonable argument to preorder, and it's the most stupid decision of a customer to give his money out of hands before getting the real product. You never would preorder any other product, but precisely with one of the most uncertain products ( in the sense of quality and usabilty) on the market you do it ? Who can understand this ?
You even don't get the game earlier as a normal (as not to say intelligent) customer who buys at release day one. You make someone already earning your money without he delivered anything.
With this stupid atitude of the immature customers game companies only feels empowered to release an unfinished product. The computer game industry laughing up their sleeves about sheeplike customers.
Others call them brainwashed customers.

My recommendation for all computer games: Wait at least a few days (better probably a few months), check the forums, read the critics, check the delivery of patches, and buy then. This gives you in any way a more pleasant game experience than at day one. Until then - I am very sure you still have a lot of games on your harddisk you can play meanwhile.

Comparing pre-ordering video games to pre-ordering supermarket food is pretty stupid. Video games are not perishables.

And it's not like the video games industry is the only one that does it. I pre-ordered my car. My wife has pre-ordered books. Pretty much everyone who has backed a kickstarter project has pre-ordered something.

There have been dozens of games that never got released because the developer run out of money, or the publisher pulled the plug because it was costing too much. Like it or not, making video games costs money. Pre-ordering not only shows to publishers that there is a demand, but can also make sure the developer doesn't go bust before release. Yes there's a good chance we're putting our money into a broken, bug-riddled game. But let me share you a secret - everybody knows that. If the developers show no intention to fix it, we still have the right as a consumer to get our money back (the 'not fit for purpose' rule is a good one).

Where you should really be directing your anger, as far as the video games industry is concerned, is the plague that is micro-transactions. Buying the game, then having to pay more and more just to be able to play it. Games like Payday 2, where you buy the game only to find that you have the barebones unlocked and you have to pay more to unlock weapons that were already shipped and installed in your copy of the game.

Also:
"My recommendation for all computer games: Wait at least a few days (better probably a few months), check the forums,"
Well, if everyone did that, the forums would be pretty blank, wouldn't they? How would we ever know that the game is stable or broken if nobody buys it?

guess what - in times where there was no Internet, but there were also already computer games. Nobody preordered, no forums, only a handful computer magazines. Although of the absence of all these, computer games were developed and companies earned money with them. So either they have the money to make video games or they don't - this doesn't depends on our preorders. Preorder you can only a few days before release day. If you start to analyze the demand of your computer game, based on our preorders, only a few days before you release your game, then good night Marketing- and business-wise this would be a pretty bad decision analyzing the demand only a few days before release

And a forum never would be blank, as you see with Transport Fever, we are all waiting, nobody has the game but the forums are already full of threads since a few months.
There are enough paid game testers to give you an impression how the game delivers (or not delivers) - if the rare case would happen that everybody waits. So no need to buy at release day one, you can easily wait, And no panic, the forums wouldn't be empties

The plague of micro-transactions I agree but this is not the focus in this thread.
I for myself have decided long time ago, when there is a game where you can play and/or win with only paying extra money, than I don't accept this as a game - and therefore I don't buy it. A game has lost his character as a game when only the one with most money is able to win.

Well, I think the most obvious purpose of preorder is to earn money as soon as possible. When you plan to develop a game you normally have budget that is calculated for a certain period of time. After that period your game must be ready to sell because all available money of this budget was spent, regardless in what condition your game is, Alpha- Beta- or Goldstatus. If your publisher knows well how to run the hype train, you already made a good part of the planned sales with preorders before release, regardless of the actual status of your game. Like this it happens again and again that you buy unfinished products in beta status. If customers would be more intelligent and with more pacience to wait, I am pretty sure you wouldn't see so often games with beta status at release day.

Zitat von Blowfly

There are enough paid game testers to give you an impression how the game delivers (or not delivers)

Having been an alpha and closed beta tester myself on many occasions, we're subject to something called a non-disclosure agreement, which means we can't tell you anything about it. I've had NDA's on games which forbid me to talk about what happened to games in betas even after the game's release.

Also, I'd rather not take reviews from someone who is paid to write it. Money influences.

I preordered the game for three reasons:
1. It's a bit cheaper.
2. Transport Fever is the sucessor of Train Fever, and I liked that game.
3. I trust Urban Games.

Simple as that...

@Blowfly aren't you generalizing too much on this topic? First you are quite condescending to everyone who pre-orders without even knowing their motivation and then you just lump together all game developers by implying that they produce games just for the financial profits and that they prey on their "stupid" customers. There is no multi-billion dollar company behind indie games and they need to eat, pay rent, and want to live a decent life. As you already wrote above, pre-ordering is a form of supporting the developers, since they get early income off their product. So why shouldn't one just pre-order to support their efforts? They take a lot of risk to provide a game in a genre abandoned by all big developers (I assume for good reasons). Don't get me wrong, I'm completely with you on patience and informed customers, but above all there should be respect and a nuanced perspective.
The whole beta discussion also strongly depends on the perspective. When is a game finished? Is it when requested features are implemented or only when all bugs are fixed? A lot of (extrovert) consumers of this game genre seem to have a very strong opinion on features, which should be implemented in such a game and claim it to be a beta release if one point in their list isn't fulfilled to their liking. Also the "in the past, the games were finished upon release and not beta" comment is just an other empty phrase, although often used nowadays. First of all the human brain always tricks you concerning the past; you only remember the good things, the irritating stuff just magically disappears. Do you know how tedious it was to download a patch with a 28kbit/s dial-up modem and yes I had to do this a couple of times in the old days. Moreover, back then the customers weren't involved in the creation process. There was no video blog nor a web forum, where every 13 year old prat without any hair on their scrotal sac could complain about their favorite train missing in the game. So the customer was never exposed to trash talk, i.e. everyone was more open-minded about a new release and didn't have that many expectations. Further, games are much more complex today and therefore more expensive to produce and more susceptible to bugs. And they have to keep up with nice graphics, fancy physics and simulations, because if they don't do it, they lose the great part of their customer base. This also means that you can't compare games like the first Sim City, which came on a single 3.5 inch floppy disk, to a 2GB game with a 30MB executable neither from the technical standpoint nor from the consumer standpoint.

Zitat von chrigulix

Do you know how tedious it was to download a patch with a 28kbit/s dial in modem and yes I had to do this a couple of times in the old days.

Ah those were the days. Leaving the PC on overnight to download a 20mb patch.

Also I didn't respond to the developers of the past comments because I didn't think at the time that it was necessary to mention that pre-orders weren't needed that long in the past because games from the 80s and 90s didn't cost much to make. Nowadays everything is 3D, needs complicated engine programming and extensive trial and error experiments and testing. Back in the days when pre-ordering and massive budgets wasn't needed, you could fit the video game on a 1.44mb floppy disk. The last game I installed was a 4.1GB download...