Coradia Stream for NS/CFL/Trenitalia or niedersachsen

Hello... as I already said many months ago, stealing the work of other dudes is not a nice attitude. Was it that hard to ask? Is it really so complicated? What's your problem?

Don't you feel a bit ashame on you about what you did? TimothyS Even Sir Ludicrous asked you if your model was stolen by ragno and you said "oh no no, I've been working on it since april". Yeah, the exact day when Ragno published the mod of the italian version on the workshop

But let's make a smart analysis about what you did:

Let's say: "ok, those trains are a bit different... mumble mumble. Some parts matching but still different, front mask of the NL version is way better"

Yeah, also bogies are different... even if, to be honest, those mantis gangways are so similar. They are so f****ng similar

Let's go deep into the X-rays view. Oh God, those meshes are perfectly mixing each other. I would say it might be a coincidence but man, even vertices are in a coincidence

Same happening for the front view, trains perfectly matching each other.

... yes

And many other images showing matches.

The funniest part is in the "coded" part, in which not even sounds have been changed in their names... and sounds are exactly the same. And sounds are mine to be honest

So my man, why did you do that? What's so hard on asking permissions? You might have just received a "yes, you can do your rework" but damn... now we are really angry. We really are angry, as much as you put a pepperoni inside our sphincters.

I don't think this is going to end well.

This is really not cool. I immediately knew something was off, that model was too similar to the one of the original modder. I hope you asked him for permission because if not this is despicable behaviour.
I know the drawings are hard to find, but you should, like I do and other 99.9% of others do, ask for permission. I once ran around various Discord servers just to find the original author to ask for a repaint, let alone copying the meshes. I am sure that the original author had no problem in giving you the authorization to make this mod as he is an active and easy to contact member of the Italian Community on Discord. Or you could have asked me or RaptorArk, which is much more active on this site. You had plenty of possibilities, enough said.

Do not make the same mistake again, and it would be nice for you to say 1) the truth and 2) you are sorry. This is bare minimum of decency. Thank you.

I don’t think you should be this angry at him. While it may look similar, you have to keep in mind that the ICNG IS basically a POP, only modified for the Netherlands (NS). I’m defending Timothy since i think he didn’t steal anything. If i’m wrong, then correct me.

These are strong accusations and they do seem plausible and well researched.

Let us not forget though that it is good custom to allow the defendant to speak for himself as well before forming a verdict or jumping to possibly premature conclusions.

I am, and I assume others are as well, hoping for an equally thought out response by TimothyS.

Zitat von Treinspotterlars

While it may look similar, you have to keep in mind that the ICNG IS basically a POP, only modified for the Netherlands (NS).

If two people make the exact same train then you won't get exactly the same mesh

Vertices will be different

Treinspotterlars The problem is, that it seems like the model was taken and then modified without permission
and while yes this is technically a different model now, modifying another persons work without permission is just as bad as straight up taking it without permission.

And if you look at the details of the mod, then everything points to the work being stolen.

Zitat von Treinspotterlars

I don’t think you should be this angry at him. While it may look similar, you have to keep in mind that the ICNG IS basically a POP, only modified for the Netherlands (NS). I’m defending Timothy since i think he didn’t steal anything. If i’m wrong, then correct me.

Check Blender's images, over there. You don't need to be a graphical engineer to see that models are identical.

I cannot make identical models by myself if I build them from scratch.

The part that we're angry is figurative cause:

1 - that train is not my model. I am totally out of the chores but I am just coming to aid Ragno. I didn't even see that the models are identical, he discovered it by himself.

2 - there's no need to feel furious but, still, the pepperoni is there... stuck in the hole

I don't think Ragno deserves to be treated like that. Admitting you've done a sh*t is already something

Zitat von HundertDampf

If two people make the exact same train then you won't get exactly the same mesh

Vertices will be different

exactly that, and the fact that in many many places the verts are in the same exact coordinates, is very suspicious, and we are talking of nearly an entire car exterior mesh that shares the verts, which is very sus, I don't want to diminuish his modification, the dude has made a good job on what he has modified, but jesus, editing someone else model is an asshole attitude, especially when you also esplicitally ask others to ask you for permisions to edit your model, when you are the first who never asked anything to the original author...

RaptorArk; hold your horses man, that's easily explained.

My plans actually started as an idea to do a repaint. Upon playing with that for a bit and finding out that both trains are actually quite different I thought "might as well do the whole thing", which is where the project took off.

When I started the modelling project I was looking into other mods and used a number of them as studycases. That is, I looked at the Trenitalia mod (obviously), the ICE1/2 mod and the Siemens C2 mods. Mainly to figure out how it's all pieced together, how the animations work, and to get the scales right.

As for the Trenitalia mod, aside from studying the workflow, I used it mainly for comparing and matching the initial dimensions and scales. A few considerations here that overlap with each other.

-difficult to find comprehensive info on bodywork dimensions for as far as I could find.

-most photos I could find are at odd angles.

-a desire for my ICNG version of the Alstom Coradia Stream to be a close match so they wouldn't look shit when next to- or coupled to each other.

I will have used some point snapping there to align my first mesh with the main dimensions. The window widths and spacing for example, but also height and width dimensions, which will explain the precise matches. And the arc above the wheels on the front as well I believe. That was actually the point (no pun intended), to match them very closely. But not a single polygon in my model came from your model, they were all modelled anew.

Basically, I used the Trenitalia mod extensively to research this process, and for size and scale matching. That is the case, but I did that with my own models first, and then aligning them to make sure they match nicely.

As for the sound script, I used that as a template but (thought) I removed all of your sounds. Replaced them with my own sounds (doors, horn, etc. and replaced other sounds with ones from the game (breaking, wheel squeaking). I don't think I left any from the Trenitalia mod inthere. The frenata one I'm not using (should have removed it).

I'm actually still figuring out the fine details of sound modding (mainly the pitch and volume timings seem difficult to nail, but I think I'm starting to understand it). I'm going to give that another pass on the weekend when I have time to dive into it as I really want to get this down and match the ICNG acceleration sound more exactly.

Other than that, that script looks like it follows the exact same template as so many others so I didn't really think anything more of it, after making sure to replace the sound files.

Hope that helps put you at ease.

Allright, so you copied it.
Can you at least begin with a "sorry, I copied your model" to Ragno instead of answering sir ludicrous with "it's a completely new model"?

Using an already made model "as a template" (expecially in that way, like if it is a blueprint) is stealing work, at least in my dictionary.

And, honestly, I can't find being proud of myself If I was doing that. You didn't build the model from scratch, you "copied" another model without asking authorization.

Zitat von TimothyS

RaptorArk; hold your horses man, that's easily explained.

As for the sound script, I used that as a template but (thought) I removed all of your sounds...

That's not a problem for anyone

Here's a video with some process explanation:

https://drive.google.com/file/…uz9gGSls/view?usp=sharing

It is ok for the explanation, let's say it is ok about the workflow

Vertices of the meshes are matching. There's nothing wrong on asking the authorization to original author.

Ma man, we're not stupid... we perfectly know there're no blueprints online about this train. Ragno made an incredible work, I hope you can understand that. That's the difference between you and him.

No need to watch 20 minutes of technical explanations: just say you're sorry and that's it.

I've typed too many messages about this, I am a bit too old for those kind of things byeee

Here's what I'll do. I'm gonna go back to a point before I started matching my point positioning and and I'll promise you I will never look at any of your/Ragnos models again for learning, referencing or matching.

In my opinion, but it's Ragno's final decision, you don't need to redo the whole model which is still very good.

Just openly admit where the base material comes from in the mod description, put a nice big and notable link to Ragno's original mod, add an image of his mod, thank him for the references.

And if Ragno accepts these terms, you are free to go without resentments.

Zitat von RaptorArk

Hello... as I already said many months ago, stealing the work of other dudes is not a nice attitude. Was it that hard to ask? Is it really so complicated? What's your problem?

Don't you feel a bit ashame on you about what you did? TimothyS Even Sir Ludicrous asked you if your model was stolen by ragno and you said "oh no no, I've been working on it since april". Yeah, the exact day when Ragno published the mod of the italian version on the workshop

But let's make a smart analysis about what you did:

Let's say: "ok, those trains are a bit different... mumble mumble. Some parts matching but still different, front mask of the NL version is way better"

Yeah, also bogies are different... even if, to be honest, those mantis gangways are so similar. They are so f****ng similar

Let's go deep into the X-rays view. Oh God, those meshes are perfectly mixing each other. I would say it might be a coincidence but man, even vertices are in a coincidence

Same happening for the front view, trains perfectly matching each other.

... yes

And many other images showing matches.

The funniest part is in the "coded" part, in which not even sounds have been changed in their names... and sounds are exactly the same. And sounds are mine to be honest

So my man, why did you do that? What's so hard on asking permissions? You might have just received a "yes, you can do your rework" but damn... now we are really angry. We really are angry, as much as you put a pepperoni inside our sphincters.

I don't think this is going to end well.

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just go away! You've done nothing but complain. Fucking italians.....

Zitat von nsicng

just go away! You've done nothing but complain. Fucking italians.....

You can't talk about being better with your stupid 1500V dc current

Zitat von TimothyS

Here's what I'll do. I'm gonna go back to a point before I started matching my point positioning and and I'll promise you I will never look at any of your/Ragnos models again for learning, referencing or matching.

It is way faster if you just admit you've copied the train, it's easy.

Zitat von nsicng

just go away! You've done nothing but complain. Fucking italians..

Do not.

I suggest you to delete this reply before I report you.

Also, very brave for you to blasting out "just go away" - like, what?? - we will not back down until everything is sorted, one way or another.

I do not care where you come from, I only know that your behavior behind the safety of a glass screen is disgusting.

I'm going to close this for now so that everyone can cool down a bit and the team can read this with calm.

I will also write to Raptorark, Ragno and Timothy so that a clear agreement can be reached.

The modders involved were now able to come to an agreement and the mod can be discussed objectively again.

And don't forget to subscribe and enjoy the mod.

Question solved .

My apologizes for the strong messages over there, reaction was a bit too hard. Sorry